Persuasion adds a great deal that is distracting. Critical thinking is about showing. It shows solutions to problems and it shows flaws in recommended solutions. Persuading others is not part of that agenda.
Einstein and his colleagues wrote the EPR paper to reveal seemingly evident flaws in the Copenhagen interpretation. They were not trying to influence followers but rather showing where attention needed to be directed to augment or re-direct Copenhagen. They were not soliciting a vote.
Even in the American court system this difference is evident. At the trial level the attorneys are trying to persuade the jurors within the constraints imposed by the courts. At the appellate level things are quite different!!!! There the attorneys are SHOWING whether or not there was a violation of procedure or evident misapplication of the law.
Even at the SCOTUS while attorneys may be called before the bench to explain aspects of their brief and amicus curiae may be called in to comment. The intent is to SHOW a decision is or is not in alignment with precedent and no procedural violations faulted a decision. The intent OF THE PROCESS is not to have another go at persuading a trier of fact about the truth of some alleged claim.
In a recent book published by Rowman and Littlefield titled THINKING AHEAD, the authors, somewhat tongue in cheek, offer as an insight into critico-creative thinking, the LAW of Figuring Things Out. By this they meant that critico-creative thinking is about SHOWING the most plausible solutions in a given problem frame or, demonstrating the presence of defeaters in an explanation.
Logic - formal and informal - decision theory, game theory, the heuristical value and heuristical distractions described in the work of economists (Thaler, Susskind etc) and cognitive scientists (Kahneman, Tversky, Lichtenstein, Slovic etc) is all about moving the community of scholars forward in a quest for shared understanding.
Matters of persuasion are important. BUT, they are not part and parcel of any Law of Figuring Things Out. Persuasion is about winning converts. People may seek truth or demonstrate truth without any intention of winning converts.
Addendum: The fact that matters of persuasion may overlap at times simply is insufficient to claim they are simply of one cloth. I hope I have shown this but, you may want to persuade me differently. Of course, if I have effectively shown what I claim then your persuasion would be a distraction would it not? If I have evident holes in my reasoning then you needn't worry about persuasion at all in this case. Instead you can simply show where the holes exist. Presumably you would not do this to discredit me but rather to shed light on a gap for all in this community of inquiry to see.
PS. Translating AILACT newsletter and pubs seems a good idea to me btw.
Respectfully,
Paul Wagner
From: AILACT DISCUSSION LIST <[log in to unmask]CUNY.EDU> on behalf of Catherine Hundleby <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 9:20:35 AM
To: [log in to unmask]CUNY.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: Should AILACT's website be translated into other languages?Hi Bob:
I'm not trying to appropriate anything, just respond to your suggestion that we eliminate "argumentation" from AILACT. The reason you give is that it commonly is understood to include persuasion. I'm not sure why that is problematic, except that it involves social dimensions. Further, I don't think the Association can claim to be about informal logic if it's not addressing argumentation, so I really find this suggestion baffling.
In trying to speculate about your reasons I clearly have ventured into territory beyond your intentions, though I maintain not beyond the implications of your suggestion.
I don't want to clog this list any further, and this discussion is way beyond the original intent of this thread. If you wish to discuss this in private, feel free to email me.
Sincerely,
Cate
On 2018-05-11, 10:25 PM, "AILACT DISCUSSION LIST on behalf of ennis, robert h" <[log in to unmask]cuny.edu on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi Catherine,
I wonder 1) what it is to have an "individualistic model of CT”, 2) why you think that AILACT has one, 3) why you think that having it makes CT useless against cognitive biases, given the so-called "bias blind spot”, and 4) what the "bias blind spot” is.
One of the dispositions promoted under the label "critical thinking", is to seek clarification when needed.
Since many of us have put in many hours developing AILACT and the fields of informal logic and critical thinking, I hope that you will not try to appropriate the results of our efforts. Make your own organization.
I am not objecting to argumentation (in the persuasion-including sense). It’s important and worthy of study, and deserves to have an organization, web site, and discussion listserv.
Bob Ennis
On May 11, 2018, at 5:29 PM, Catherine Hundleby <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> One thing to be considered if AILACT wants to retain an individualistic model of CT is that will make CT useless against cognitive biases, given the bias blind-spot. Social models (which may or may not be models of argumentation, but will likely involve the subject of persuasion) open up possible avenues around the bias blind spot.
>
> That is just one consideration from the 35 years of scholarship on CT that have amassed since 1983. In addition, the individualistic model of justification is undergoing substantial revision by social epistemologists.
>
> - Cate Hundleby
>
> On 2018-05-11, 4:50 PM, "AILACT DISCUSSION LIST on behalf of ennis, robert h" <[log in to unmask]cuny.edu on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> If Catherine and Michael want to form an organization called argumentation, let them do so. Or they might call it “Arg Theory”. But I request of them and some others that they not try to appropriate and dilute the concerns expressed in 1983 when at a meeting in Windsor we created AILACT with David Hitchcock as our first president.
>
> I do not have in mind any particular model of justification.
>
> Bob Ennis
>
>
>> On May 11, 2018, at 4:33 PM, Catherine Hundleby <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Justification occurs in a social context, which is why it often involves argumentation, though certainly not always. What model of justification do you have in mind, Bob?
>>
>> -Cate
>>
>> On 2018-05-11, 4:28 PM, "AILACT DISCUSSION LIST on behalf of ennis, robert h" <[log in to unmask]cuny.edu on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Critical thinking is concerned with justification. Argumentation, as many now interpret it, is concerned heavily with persuasion.
>>
>> Persuasion is also very important in our lives. So is history -- and study of our native language, But that is not a good enough reason to dilute the study of justification.
>>
>> Bob Ennis
>>> On May 11, 2018, at 11:49 AM, Michael Gilbert <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh, and Critical Thinking doesn’t???
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>> On May 11, 2018, at 11:10 AM, ennis, robert h <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I suggest we limit it to Informal Logic and Critical Thinking. Argumentation as it is commonly interpreted includes persuasion.
>>>>
>>>> Bob Ennis
>>>>
>>>>> On May 10, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Lilian Bermejo Luque <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> The board of directors of AILACT is going to launch a series of questions in order to encourage members to colectively debate and decide about possible ways of invigorating our association. The first question we would like to ask is this:
>>>>>
>>>>> Expanding the presence of the Argumentation, Critical Thinking and Informal Logic community in non-English speaking countries seems like a sound goal for our association. Do you think it would be a good idea to have our website translated into other languages, like Spanish, Chinese, Portuguese, etc.? In case you do, how do you think we should do it? Do you have other ideas to achieve this goal?
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> Lilian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dra. Lilian Bermejo Luque
>>>>> Profesora Titular
>>>>> Departamento de Filosofía I
>>>>> Universidad de Granada
>>>>> Tlf. +34 958249725
>>>>> http://www.ugr.es/~lilianbl/index.htm
>>>>>
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